Curse

crimsonfilms · Apr 21, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Again, what's wrong with that? You don't want Anet to make money by providing a service people want?

They don't have to give you anything. They could have made merging Factions with no slots, or just one. Instead, they offer 2 slots. Not enough? Buy more. I fail to see the problem.

The problem is trying to sell the math logic that Gaile and company (yes Gaile I am calling you out on this) try to sell as if the community is some kind of idiots.

They where try to pitch it as if it was some kind of benefit when in fact it was just a backdoor scheme to eek out more money.
ANet scams the whole we don't have a monthly BS. We are not even in chapter 2 and that argument has already become weak. Instead of being honest like other companies about their marketing model - ANet decided to BS the community. Hood winking. Yea no monthly - but they will get you later.

Quote:

Sure it's about your choice! It's not like Anet is holding a gun to your head, telling you what to do! Obviously, Anet is doing this for a reason.

Stop it. Stop it. That is not an argument. That is obvious. If that is your end all be all counter then might as well close the forum since there will be no point in a DISCUSSION.

Its like "if you dont like America - get out."

ANet keeps treating the community like this then it is hard not to be anti ANet. The PvP community has slowly been disillusioned with ANet. And like many things in the gaming industry - the PvP community leads the way.

ANet you have been warned.

Synthos · Apr 21, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

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Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

ANet you have been warned.

Hahaha.. This reminds me of stehen colbert.. Youve been put on notice..

MelechRic · Apr 21, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

This sounds correct, but more character storage will also require more physical disk storage. Yes, hard disks are getting cheaper all the time, but ANET is probably running NetApp, Fast-T, EMC, or other DASD-type RAID array to protect their customer data. HD's fail all the time, so maintaining and protecting larger databases inherently costs more money.

You make a good point. We run NetApp here at work and those babies aren't cheap. Around 100k for each unit we purchase. Most of that cost is in long term service contracts and < 4 hour turn around on dead drives.

Overall, though there is a lot of market pressure to make storage (and it's associated costs) cheaper every year.

tomcruisejr · Apr 21, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

this is a better strategy than monthly fees.

two thumbs up.

well we aren't forced to have an additional character slot. if we wanna have a slot, we pay some fixed amount. doesnt hurt right? guildwars has no monthly fee. we all love it and yep we gotta also help it to thrive by say paying for additional services (i.e. this new scheme).

this additional character slot wont affect the PvP realm. so why complain?

edit: and it was suggested by most of the GW players. so why complain?

sarcasteak · Apr 21, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Are some people bitter just because spending an extra $10~20 one-time is too much for them? Or is it that they expect getting new contents and new services without having to pay any monthly fee?

IF (and that's a big if) ANet starts to release content on a pay-basis, THEN complain all you want about how ANet is tricking you and stealing your money. As it stands, this whole pay-for-slot thing was our suggestion, our demand.

Sai of Winter · Apr 21, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Like the others have said, we suggested for extra character slots. Is it bad that Anet listens to the community?

Draken · Apr 21, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldplay

how about selling storage boxes, too? A-net

Arent they? I mean you can buy a character to store items his name could even be... "storage" for those vast amounts of wares you have to sell.

Diablo™ · Apr 21, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

OMFG I just saw this right now! It's like my birthday came early this year!!

AeroLion · Apr 21, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

They're just being greedy. I was kinda into Anet and GW because they weren't as greedy as everyone else in this business. But it seems the marketing guys have corrupted the devs.

How are they being greedy? Because you want extra slots but aren't willing to pay for them? Hey, guess what? You don't need extra slots! Buying them won't make you any better than anyone else at the game. It's not like you're able to buy an uber-sword of uberness for an extra $30. This is an option for people that want to have all primaries without having to buy a new account. That's all.

It's something that was wholeheartedly asked for by the Guild Wars community. Look in the Factions forum. There's a huge thread about it in there. So please, forgive Anet for listening to their customers and giving them exactly what they asked for.

EDIT: Also, I can't be the only one that's utterly dumbfounded that this is causing as much controversy as it has.

Cjlr · Apr 21, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

Well. There's no need to bash me or flame me. Just as I don't bash or flame you.

Didn't think I had... But let's put that behind us. As for the meat and potatoes...

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Originally Posted by Tric

I don't agree we've gotten a lot of stuff for free. I payed for this game. And, in return for not having a monthly cost, we don't get a whole lot of extra content. Sorrow's Furnace, and some new utility features. That's *all*, basically. And, when paying for factions, the fact that it's not a monthly cost won't be as much of a pro anymore, since Factions cost full price and is an expansion.

We got holiday events, Sorrow's Furnace, the Battle Isles, Faction, and a whole slew of fixes and miscellaneous updates. Oh, and Lina; can't forget Lina. That's significantly more than the vast majority of games with no fees. In fact, it's more than a good number of the ones that do have monthly fees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

It's not like Anet will go bankrupt if they offer these slots for free. They've got PLENTY of cash. They're just being greedy. I was kinda into Anet and GW because they weren't as greedy as everyone else in this business. But it seems the marketing guys have corrupted the devs.

They are not being greedy. They are merely being what they are. A company. Companies provide us with goods, services, amd conveniences we would otherwise lack in exchange for our money. The day a large company gives out free stuff like that is the day India and Pakistan share a nice cup of tea over Kashmir while a flock of pigs flies by overhead in the purple sky. Oh, and Hell is experiencing a cold snap.

No offense but they are out to make money like everybody else. They saw an opportunity (we wanted more slots, and even offered to pay for them), and took it. I really don't think that constitutes greed.

MelechRic · Apr 21, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

They are not being greedy. They are merely being what they are. A company. Companies provide us with goods, services, amd conveniences we would otherwise lack in exchange for our money. The day a large company gives out free stuff like that is the day India and Pakistan share a nice cup of tea over Kashmir while a flock of pigs flies by overhead in the purple sky. Oh, and Hell is experiencing a cold snap.

No offense but they are out to make money like everybody else. They saw an opportunity (we wanted more slots, and even offered to pay for them), and took it. I really don't think that constitutes greed.

/signed 100% Agreement.

RuPee · Apr 21, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

OMG!!! thank you ANET!

SisterMercy · Apr 21, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

/applause

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

Its a ripoff. $10 for a character slot?

This just proves the point that silly Math that Gaile and crew tried to pass as logic why only 2 extra slots - was silly of course. How can we not laugh at that now?

Unfortunately, the cynical truth - more money - has always been the real reason.

Frankly, in e-commerce (particularily WRT credit card transactions), it's not worth it to sell anything online for less than $7, and many processing agencies simply will not process anything under $5. Secondly, it's A.net's prerogative as part of their business plan (you're not paying monthly fees, remember?), and makes for a healthier company, which can (and probably will, from what we've seen thus far) make for a better-supported game. And thirdly, you don't want the cost so low that everyone will have 30+ characters... you do need a way to put a ceiling on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldplay

how about selling storage boxes, too? A-net

Would be nice to see too, but keep in mind they'd likely have to do so at a minimum $5 increment, and will want to first monitor the sales of slots and see if it has any detrimental effect on the game. Meanwhile, you get the extra character personal storage to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saneo

does anyone know if slots will continue to come with purchased chapters as they will in factions? or do you have to buy the future chapter(s)+character slot(s) in order to take advantage of new classes without deleting valuable characters

I'd expect probably 2 slots and 2 professions for each merged expansion, to continue the business model they've established.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

GW may not have a monthly, but as time goes on - the *value* of the game is actually less and less. Coming closer to that of traditional pay-to-play MMORPG.

If ou don't buy the extra slot, it does not hurt you or reduce any opportunity you may have in any way with your current characters. It is a reasonable add-on that in no way reduces what you got when you bought the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

Exactly! The no monthly thing becomes a license to milk it.

More weapons skins for $5 - 'hey we have no monthly'
More storage for $3 - 'hey we have no monthly'
Combine 2 accounts $10 - 'hey we have no monthly'
Server goes down - 'hey we have no monthly'
Faster server access $10 -'hey we have no monthly'

Don't expect it to go to any of those extremes, because the business model is all about providing an affordable, accessible product, and they'd become vulnerable to being undercut by someone else on that score.

That said, many such ideas, such as a character skin/armor/hair expansion pack, do not affect the game accessibility in the long run, you simply don't need to buy them to enjoy the game. So I see no harm in development along this line.

Xaniera · Apr 21, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

They are not being greedy. They are merely being what they are. A company. Companies provide us with goods, services, amd conveniences we would otherwise lack in exchange for our money. The day a large company gives out free stuff like that is the day India and Pakistan share a nice cup of tea over Kashmir while a flock of pigs flies by overhead in the purple sky. Oh, and Hell is experiencing a cold snap.

No offense but they are out to make money like everybody else. They saw an opportunity (we wanted more slots, and even offered to pay for them), and took it. I really don't think that constitutes greed.

Also 100% in agreement. Key words being "we wanted more slots, and even offered to pay for them."

lyra_song · Apr 21, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

<---snipped--->
ANet you have been warned.

^_^ Hilarious.

Loviatar · Apr 21, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

EDIT: Also, I can't be the only one that's utterly dumbfounded that this is causing as much controversy as it has.

Anet gave them what they begged for.

how can they NOT complain.

it is the nature of the beast

Gli · Apr 21, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I really don't see the problem guys like Tric have with these paid for extra slots. People have been able to buy more character slots from day 1, in the form of extra accounts. (Which I'd never ever do for reasons I explained elsewhere.

)

This summer, it'll be more convenient to get more slots, and a heck of a lot cheaper too, considering these slots will be universal across any and all chapters (That's what I assume anyway). With multiple accounts, you'd have to buy new chapter keys for each account to upgrade the options for existing slots on each of these accounts. Have 2 accounts? You'll have to dish out $100 per chapter to keep up.

With the paid for extra slots, you'll only have to buy 1 key for each new chapter and all your slots will be upgraded. It's a bargain compared to keeping multiple accounts. You'll spend only $50 to keep up.

Where's the greed? People interested in more slots will be able to get them cheaper, in a more convenient manner, and no longer forced to buy them in huge chunks (accounts) at once.

SchwarzKnight · Apr 21, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

For those of you who chalk this up as another marketing ploy to get us to fork out more $ for more character slots, you would seem to be asserting that they knew this was coming from day one and were intending to do this. If that's the case, I'd like to know why they didn't do this right off the bat? On product like this, the later it's released, the less money there is to be made, so it stands to reason that they're losing out by coming out with something like this a full year after the game went retail. Come on, give them some credit. If they knew this would happen, I'm sure they'd have jumped on it the moment they could.

Of course, you might say that if they'd done this right away, they would've lost a lot of game sales. Perhaps, but if so, then why put this out now? Why not wait until after chapter 3's out, where they've sold however many accounts for ~$150 with all 3 chapters merged. They would've made a lot more money per account by doing that than announcing just now that they'll be having this option available. They would've had their millions of game sales for each chapter along with the revenue generated by this particular trick.

Either way, it seems to me that, if they knew this was going to be an eventuality, announcing it now is about the worst possible implementation of this particular economic strategem.

However, I would believe that the idea may have been hatched sometime in the most recent 3-4 months of game development, particularly when they were discussing pricing on Factions, along with the choice in character slot allotment when merging accounts. Let me put it this way (trying to avoid A-net's Fuzzy Math[tm]) - you can view Factions as a stand-alone game equal to Prophecies or as an expansion to Prophecies, and is fully functional in both aspects. I would believe that point is fairly indisputable. Therefore, I propose this:

Factions as stand-alone: $50 w/4 characters; same as a Prophecies stand-alone, priced accordingly

Factions as expansion: $30 for content (equal to other expansions, with a fair bit more content than most in this bracket, I would argue) + 2 character slots @ $10 each = still $50

Seems understandable and reasonably equitable to me. Since this is the first game in my memory that really tries to be both stand-alone and expansion at once, I really can't say we have any frame of reference on this, either. I can't really say it's wholly unfair on their part. It's not a particularly good deal, per se, but I'd say it's far better value than your standard-issue $2 horse armor, which will probably end up being the standard for pay-for-content for the time being. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing; simply that it's fair.

Though, really it boils down to it being a case of "it is what it is." It's going to be $10 per slot, at least for the time being. And I really don't think it'll change. We can piss and moan about it here on forums, but as long as the vast majority of people see it as a fair price worthy of purchase, and do so with fervor, they'll have no reason to change it. Judging by the amount of people that asked for it, I see that as a likely outcome.

lord_shar · Apr 21, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

We all know that money speaks louder than any inflamatory speech. If GW players want to spend more money on character storage, that is their personal choice alone.

I'll happily plunk down 4 figures on a cue stick, mountain bike, PC, or any other toy I want at the moment, so $10.00 is hardly worth a second thought.

Metanoia · Apr 21, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

When I first saw this I'll admit the idea of them trying to make a fast buck crossed my mind.

A $50(+$50) game with 6(+2) professions and 4(+2) slots with the option to buy 2 more (allowing for a primary of each) does seem rather suspicious. People have always asked why they only gave such a limited number of character slots... Although, if this was some master plan, why unveil it just before GW:Factions' release with it's 2 extra slots?

But, I've come to a conclusion... of sorts.

1) Since the game is basically free to download, what are we actually paying for? 4 character slots. Allowing people to perchase 1 slot at a time rather than going out and buying another copy of the game for four more is just convenient.

2) I don't care enough to be outraged. Don't like it? Don't use it. The only thing to really be mad at is the original number of slots, which you've known of and "endured" this long. Or perhaps this merely puts their decision to originally limit character slots in a new light.